Grimrock

The game has become completely unplayable in outside areas. In spots with some view distance moving takes a second per tile. Was working before. Any way to use older patches with the Steam version?

I played it right after the patch and it was fine for me. Did you lower the detail that helped a lot for me.

Taem wrote: Now I expect opinions will abound on this, however I felt all these games were more polished and balanced than GR2 currently is in regards to the game-play mechanics, even though none of these games were or are perfect. I won’t deny GR2 is a terrific game, but I feel it’s just not quite there yet.

Yeah, I can completely agree with your feeling here: While I love LoG1/2, I also know DM and CSB, and in retrospective it became pretty clear to me how well polished these games were game mechanical wise... and LoG1/2 is sadly lacking here a little bit. Also, the developers don't seems to be perfectionists anymore (aiming for perfect game, polishing out everything) and de-priorizing bugs and hick-ups as minor which than get never fixed. If you take a look for instance on this historical bug list for LoG1, you see bugs which only partly got fixed recently for LoG2. And these few also not for LoG1; it seems there will be no back-porting of the engine for LoG1

But, there is some hope in the community: Komag could maybe port his LoG1 remake potentially to the new engine (half-authorized by Antti), bringing his own and some LoG2-engine fixes also to LoG1 (as his version was generated with editor which should be more compatible with the new engine).

Taem wrote:For example, with GR2, I examined such titles as Dungeon Master 1, Ishar: Legend of Fortress, Eye of the Beholder 1, and of course Legend of Grimrock 1. Now I expect opinions will abound on this, however I felt all these games were more polished and balanced than GR2 currently is in regards to the game-play mechanics, even though none of these games were or are perfect.

"Those games" felt more polished/balanced because they had less to offer than you recall.
- Firearms: not there
- Special attacks: either done automatic (LoG1), selected like regular attacks with growing cooldowns (DM) or not there (EoB)
- Charged items: i agree they should cost a lot less energy but that's it
- Cooldowns: no difference; check your reference DM for it's cooldowns: they get longer and longer with more powerful attacks
- Spell damage: no difference; in LoG2 the magic skill levels are similar to DM power runes; damage cap in DM was the Mon rune

Dr.Disaster wrote:

Taem wrote:For example, with GR2, I examined such titles as Dungeon Master 1, Ishar: Legend of Fortress, Eye of the Beholder 1, and of course Legend of Grimrock 1. Now I expect opinions will abound on this, however I felt all these games were more polished and balanced than GR2 currently is in regards to the game-play mechanics, even though none of these games were or are perfect.

"Those games" felt more polished/balanced because they had less to offer.
- Firearms: not there
- Special attacks: either done automatic (LoG1), selected like regular attacks with growing cooldowns (DM) or not there (EoB)
- Charged items: i agree they should cost a lot less energy but that's it
- Cooldowns: no difference; check your reference DM for it's cooldowns: they get longer and longer with more powerful attacks
- Spell damage: no difference; even in DM spell damage hits a cap once spells get prefixed with the Mon rune

Your are picking details and missing the big picture: DM had significantly more to offer & felt still better polished. The DM game mechanic was more complex, more realistic (LoG "walking dead party effect") and provided a more consistent immersion. Complexity: 3 bars (HP, mana, stamina) vs 2 (HP, strange mana/stamina mix). ressource management mechanic: food+water vs only food. Magic: significant more free-formed system, 27 spells (DM2 even more) flexible power adaption system, freely discoverable, fizzle mechanic with experience. dungeon: realistic light level/management required, log always bright, objects blink in the dark. dead/health management: DM, no walking dead parties, but bones and pain for resurrection, in Log, too easy and non-realistic crystal resurrection (are these crystals somewhen explained? they felt to me always out of place), attributes: DM, more, also hidden and open mechanic (e.g. "luck").

from the points specifically:
Cooldowns: DM, you had often choice from 3 options, if you use an slow or fast cooldown attack for a weapon. log2: 2, standard attack + slower special attack with pre-heatup phase
Spell damage: was not fixed but was freely player scaleable. log fixed (+critical).

PS: I forgot my favourit! door mechanic: DM, realistic door which hurts and interact with dungeon and monsters, partly bypassable by projectiles, partly destroyable. LoG, infinite thin, non-interacting door. I loved the door mechanic in DM.

badhabit wrote:Your are picking details ..

I am talking points brought up by Taem. You mainly pick on details nobody asked about.

badhabit wrote:Cooldowns: DM, you had often choice from 3 options, if you use an slow or fast cooldown attack for a weapon. log2: 2, standard attack + slower special attack with pre-heatup phase

That's what i said, silly: the stronger the attack the longer the cooldown so no difference to LoG2.
Actually LoG2 does add a prep-phase to special attacks, surpassing DM in matter of detail.

badhabit wrote:Spell damage: was not fixed but was freely player scaleable. log fixed (+critical).

Yeah as if players were using Lo spells on the deeper levels ..

Dr.Disaster wrote:

badhabit wrote:Your are picking details ..

I am talking points brought up by Taem. You mainly pick on details nobody asked about.

No, you argue detail oriented. Taem and I talk about the complete scope of the game, which is less polished than DM.

Dr.Disaster wrote:

badhabit wrote:Cooldowns: DM, you had often choice from 3 options, if you use an slow or fast cooldown attack for a weapon. log2: 2, standard attack + slower special attack with pre-heatup phase

That's what i said, silly: the stronger the attack the longer the cooldown. Bottonline: no difference to LoG2

more choice, no blocking pre-heatup -> different.

Dr.Disaster wrote:

badhabit wrote:Spell damage: was not fixed but was freely player scaleable. log fixed (+critical).

Yeah as if players were using Lo spells on the deeper levels ..

Yes, they do, as they have to learn the spells.

badhabit wrote:No, you argue detail oriented. Taem and I talk about the complete scope of the game, which is less polished than DM.

Read what he is talking about.
Read what I am talking about with him.
Check what you add to that.

Dr.Disaster wrote:

badhabit wrote:No, you argue detail oriented. Taem and I talk about the complete scope of the game, which is less polished than DM.

Read what he is talking about.
Read what I am talking about with him.
Check what you add to that.

Read to what I was referring in his post: to his conclusion, to which I agree and brought examples.

Overall, I'm surprised that you not try to defend even the energy use of charged objects as a "useful & resonable" game mechanic, as you normally defend furiously even the weakest aspect of this game as "intended".

badhabit wrote:

Dr.Disaster wrote:

badhabit wrote:No, you argue detail oriented. Taem and I talk about the complete scope of the game, which is less polished than DM.

Read what he is talking about.
Read what I am talking about with him.
Check what you add to that.

Read to what I was referring in his post: to his conclusion, to which I agree and brought examples.

I don't care what your opinion is about his conclusion therefore did not comment on it.

You jumped into a discussion on balance changes Taem likes to see and my take of it, then you virtually littered it with stuff no-one has asked for or stuff from other game systems which are naturally not present in LoG2. Also the points cooldowns and spell damage of OUR discussion which YOU finally(!) adressed got littered by foreign game system details without looking on Taem's overall requests which are "lowering cooldowns" and "add scaling to spell damage".