Grimrock

FeMaiden wrote: but in the example of drakkan's room, he expected people to know the names of characters and fantasy locations from old school pc games, just based on a screenshot image. many of which I have never even heard of. and one of the questions was a "bunda" guy asking who sent you, and the player got it wrong and BAM! instant death. (although I DID think it was hilarious, I almost spilled my coffee on my laptop and destroyed all my work)

I think his puzzle was clever and cute, with the dialogue boxes, but it basically boils down to "trial and error". you know most players are gonna just reload their quicksave to test all the dialogue options.

Aha, so you've played ORRR2? The exception there is that the rooms (and challenges within) are entirely optional, and don't of themselves bar further progress. Myself, I will put in super secrets that many won't find... but they will never be required to find them or quit. If it's an optional puzzle then not knowing the movies is not really a deal-breaker.

gambit37 wrote:I think it's a mistake to keep your code, just because you "already wrote it" that way. As minmay points out, defining the same item 6 times is pointless and inefficient, and you should always strive for efficiency in any code that you develop. Code is cheap: be prepared to rewrite and delete it when necessary, and don't hang on to stuff you don't need.

In addition, you now have code in two places: your script in the editor, and your object definitions file. Your script now depends on external code, when it doesn't really need to.

Modding (and by extension, coding in general) is more than just making something work. It's also about clarity, efficiency, performance and optimisation. Why stick with an inefficient method for your script when there is a better way to do it?

I agree with the fundamentals you've stated as it pertains to development. I've been a software dev for over 10 years. However, in a video game Mod I hardly find it necessary to invest all of that time and energy. Especially since you only named a small number of quality control factors. What about unit testing and regression testing? Never test your own code is a golden rule. So should no one ever build a Mod until they have a dedicated testing team? Hardly.

In this case, a player will experience zero noticeable issues over the fact that 6 identical items were created instead of simply using the "id" reference. It was a good learning experience that FeMaiden created custom objects. The fact that it was done under the wrong assumption is irrelevant. Now the author has a better understanding of an Asset Name vs Asset ID as well as custom object creation.

I left plenty of "bad code" in my own Mod, none of which causes any performance issues nor bugs. While there are always better ways to do things, one has to consider the target environment and target audience, because what comes before Continuous Improvement is "Resource Management." That's a critical factor in software development that your post completely ignores.

Considering the number of sales of Grimrock 2, the total number of downloads for all Grimrock 2 Mods, and the fact that every Mod is non-commercial... leaving "bad code" in a Mod should literally be expected; as long as the code isn't resulting in gameplay defects.

Often times people focus very heavily on the technical aspects of a game because, well, they have no talent or skill on the creative design side. I have seen Mods where the source code was gorgeous, but the gameplay bored you to tears. I call those Mods, "nerd candy." Some people gain enjoyment staring at good code, others could care less and just want to play a good game.

Lastly, there are a great number of legendary games that have plenty of "bad code" that lead to bugs, some just visual, others more critical.

"All your base are belong to us" comes to mind

Isaac wrote:

FeMaiden wrote: but in the example of drakkan's room, he expected people to know the names of characters and fantasy locations from old school pc games, just based on a screenshot image. many of which I have never even heard of. and one of the questions was a "bunda" guy asking who sent you, and the player got it wrong and BAM! instant death. (although I DID think it was hilarious, I almost spilled my coffee on my laptop and destroyed all my work)

I think his puzzle was clever and cute, with the dialogue boxes, but it basically boils down to "trial and error". you know most players are gonna just reload their quicksave to test all the dialogue options.

Aha, so you've played ORRR2? The exception there is that the rooms (and challenges within) are entirely optional, and don't of themselves bar further progress. Myself, I will put in super secrets that many won't find... but they will never be required to find them or quit. If it's an optional puzzle then not knowing the movies is not really a deal-breaker.

yes, that's what i've been saying, my movie puzzle is an optional puzzle

and actually I have not played ORRR2, but now I want to, I even went far enough to download original grimrock. I know about drakkan's room because I clicked the link the other guy posted above me in this thread.
I'm not criticizing drakkan's room, merely using it as an example to justify my own puzzle

p.s.
the main game also has movie references. (Orb of Vilson?) and finding that did not break my immersion.

FeMaiden wrote:and actually I have not played ORRR2, but now I want to, I even went far enough to download original grimrock.

I think you will like it; but you would like it better after having played through the Grimrock campaign. There are features that you are used to in LoG2 that did not exist in LoG1 ~but exist in the ORRR2 mod; (that pre-dates LoG2).

Isaac wrote:

FeMaiden wrote:and actually I have not played ORRR2, but now I want to, I even went far enough to download original grimrock.

I think you will like it; but you would like it better after having played through the Grimrock campaign. There are features that you are used to in LoG2 that did not exist in LoG1 ~but exist in the ORRR2 mod; (that pre-dates LoG2).

I played the original grimrock campaign twice already, granted it was a couple of years ago.
I also just recently bought grimrock on ipad, theres no custom editor but the OG campaign is there and i got it for 99 cents.
the only part that I think i'll have to get used to is the old style leveling up and skill system

FeMaiden wrote:I played the original grimrock campaign twice already, granted it was a couple of years ago.

Then I hope you enjoy the ORRR2.

There are about 75 (small) maps IRRC (across nine floors, each room is usually one to three maps/floors @9x9 tiles per floor; but there are exceptions). There are brief pauses in parts of the map, because the mod erases most of the floor area that is outside of the room the party is currently exploring. (It's because the maps are insanely dense.)