The Bard's Tale IV Kickstarter is live

[Isaac]

Anyway, both styles boil down into a) get the initiative to strick first and b) keep the monsters from attacking/regenerating while you c) decimate them.

Eh... I've seen people assume that all you do in a game like Fallout is randomly attack until you're PC is the last one standing, but that's a terrible way to play it. Games with individual turns allow you to pick your actions based on the actions that have already occurred; while PB games do not; and there is no strategic option. In games like Fallout, and Disciples for instance, who you choose to attack can dictate who survives the round in both PB and TB games, but in TB games it can dictate who does or doesn't survive in the next round.

PB games offer no influence over the play-by-play course of the combat; you can only decide fixed action ahead of time, that may or may not actually happen in the round. This is impossible in Turn Based games, as the PC's turn always happens; with the single exception of an event that forces them to lose a turn; like getting knocked down or unconscious.

[Dr.Disaster]

Why do i get the impression you never played Bard's Tale?

Strategic was a MUST there to win the key battles, otherwise you stood no chance.

[Isaac]

Why do i get the impression you never played Bard's Tale?

I don't know why you would get that impression... but the strategy is not there (in the form you get in a turn based game, like Fallout, or the Gold-Box, or the Disciples series); and you have far less control over the outcome of a given round in PB.

*But you also don't have arch-mage spells in those other games.

[Dr.Disaster]

sigh .. yeah there is a minor advantage to control between PB and TB, i give you that. Yet IMO this advantage is so minor it's hardly worth noting; it decides as much about winning or losing as a good or bad dice roll.

[Isaac]

sigh .. yeah there is a minor advantage to control between PB and TB, i give you that. Yet IMO this advantage is so minor it's hardly worth noting; it decides as much about winning or losing as a good or bad dice roll.

Dice rolls usually indicate a weighted outcome, based on the skill of the PC, they are rarely straight random values. The advantage in TB in not minor, unless you do consider the ability to forgo attacks in favor of a different action, or the action of healing an NPC that just got injured in the current round, and might not survive the remainder of it. Many times in Fallout (for instance), I've kept my NPCs alive for having equipped a healing drug instead of a weapon, during the fight... Also, none of the animal companions is capable of using medical treatment options on themselves; so they cannot heal on their own in combat.

In PB games all you can do is decide to heal instead of attack, at the outset, but the PC might not be alive by the time your other PC acts, or the PC attempting the healing might get killed first. In a TB game, when the PC has their turn, they have the choice to heal the injured then and their ~before the injured PC/NPC gets attacked again... or they could change their mind on the spot, and not heal, if for instance they note that the opponent's own [perhaps emergent] injuries make them an easy target to eliminate; and eliminate their upcoming attacks or own attempts to heal themselves.

This wasn't ever intended some sort of argument; I just mentioned the distinction between PB and TB.

[Dr.Disaster]

That minor advantage pays only when you are totally unaware what your party is up against and PC's get killed. Beside that it's no big deal. I can (and did) the exact same thing you just named in PB games by i.e. cast healing spells like "Flesh Restore" in advance when i knew the next round would hurt badly.

[Isaac]

That minor advantage pays only when you are totally unaware what your party is up against and PC's get killed. Beside that it's no big deal. I can (and did) the exact same thing you just named in PB games by i.e. cast healing spells like "Flesh Restore" in advance when i knew the next round would hurt badly.

I mentioned the casting of healing spells in PB, but I also mentioned that in PB you can't take it for granted that the caster acts in time ~or at all; where as in TB it can. In TB you can [on the fly] abandon your plan to mow down several enemies, upon realizing that the preceding attacks [that round] left another PC so injured that they wouldn't survive any of the attacks from the remaining enemies ~that round.

Each style/system plays more than just superficially different. In most TB combat systems I've played, the player can use their turn to carefully examine all of the enemies, before deciding what to do; and in the case of Fallout/WL2, each combatant has more than one action per turn. That makes quite a difference. One's enemies can both attack and heal in the same round; or attack twice.

[Dr.Disaster]

I mentioned the casting of healing spells in PB, but I also mentioned that in PB you can't take it for granted that the caster acts in time ~or at all; where as in TB it can.

Sorry but this is not true. Nothing guaranties in TB that your caster gets killed or prevended from casting before it's his turn. It only takes a swift enemy to disable your caster, most likely with spells like Mind Warp or Stone Touch.

[Isaac]

I mentioned the casting of healing spells in PB, but I also mentioned that in PB you can't take it for granted that the caster acts in time ~or at all; where as in TB it can.

Sorry but this is not true. Nothing guaranties in TB that your caster gets killed or prevended from casting before it's his turn. It only takes a swift enemy to disable your caster, most likely with spells like Mind Warp or Stone Touch.

Think about it.

When it's their turn, nothing can kill your PC until it's not their turn; nothing can interfere with their choice of action. The choice to change tactics can happen mid-round. This is not the way of it in Phased Based combat; where you are locked into your actions at the outset, before any actions play out. That caster that starts with the intent to kill enemies, cannot change actions mid-round to help their companions instead, when it comes time for them to act. The caster that starts with the intent to heal companions... must survive the round until they can enact their healing spell; and so must their target.

The TB caster doesn't start the round with any committed intent. they may decide to attack, They may decide to heal (or use items, or reposition)... But the decide with full knowledge of the preceding actions that took place before their turn; and those can affect a change of plan; this cannot happen in PB combat.

**This is beginning to sound like one is being held up over the other, but that's not the intention; The intention was only ever just to point out that the two systems play very differently.

[Dr.Disaster]

Assumed the party goes always first that's true. Thus i said "swift enemy". When monster(s) go first and kill or incapacitate your caster(s) right away, he/they is/are out. Seen that happen so don't try to tell me it does not and past that it's the same as having a bad PB draw.